GRTiQ Podcast: 10 Konstantin Zaitcev

00:01
The following podcast is for informational purposes only the contents of this podcast do not constitute tax, legal or investment advice, take responsibility for your own decisions, consult with the proper professionals and do your own research.

00:23
But in case of The Graph, we can find really good team with really strong developers, and really good economics. And at the same time, we have project that could be a base for all future decentralized applications.

01:10
Welcome to the GRTiQ Podcast. Today I’m speaking with Kasper and Konstantin from P2P, an Indexer at The Graph. P2P is a well-known and very large Indexer, sometimes accounting for more than 30% of the total GRT staked by the Delegator community. Our conversation spans several interesting topics, including how P2P balances their position as a large Indexer with their mission to help decentralize the network. The factors by which the P2P team determined to regularly close rewards allocations on a daily basis. And although this is old news, I was interested to hear more about the unique perspective they took regarding GIP-0002. I started the conversation by asking Kasper to describe who P2P is and how they got involved in The Graph.

02:02
So, P2P Validator where a non-custodial staking service for primarily professional investors and traders, we launched in 2018 on a mission to positively influence and contribute to Proof of Stake networks. Initially, this included a focus on core networks or Polkadot, Solana, and Cosmos, and in recent years, it’s expanded to support innovative networks like The Graph. Since our launch, we’ve grown to manage approximately $3.8 to $4 billion in staked assets as of right now paid over $180 million out in rewards to our stakeholders. We currently support more than 6,500 professional clients work with us to compound their investments and grow their digital asset portfolios. We currently support more than 25 unique blockchain networks with The Graph being a core one of these 25 networks.

02:59
You described P2P as a non-custodial validator, what is meant by non-custodial?

03:05
Non-custodial, again, goes back to what I just mentioned, P2P being aligned with the decentralized spirit of the industry. So, we’re like we’re very much proponents of giving our users control and not putting them in a position where they need to trust us or hand over, for example, private keys or assets, hand these things over to us. And to an extent that they’re uncomfortable with it. So, I’m noncustodial, in the simplest terms means that you’re staking from the security of your own wallet. You don’t have to trust us to maintain the security and control of your funds. You simply need to trust us to provide I guess, a clean connection to in this example, The Graph Network. So, you stick with us you maintain full control and custody of your funds. And you never actually put your funds in a compromised state.

04:00
So, you’re joining me from Denmark and Konstantin is joining from Russia. Where are the headquarters for P2P?

04:06
We are a fully distributed team with employees all around the world. We don’t have a headquarter are a core office that we go to. And we have developers, builders, analysts and everything else distributed around the world. So, we very much try to adopt decentralized spirit of the industry.

04:25
So, starting with you, Kasper, what is your role at P2P?

04:28
So, my role at P2P is a marketing and growth focused role. So, I tried to, I guess spread the values of P2P as well as the values and benefits of noncustodial staking. So, we are avid believers in the fact that noncustodial staking is a beneficial activity for everyone in this industry. You don’t need to be a hedge fund or an institutional investor to reap the benefits of noncustodial staking. It’s an activity that benefits not only individual, but also the networks that they support, so contributes to, for example, the security of these blockchain networks. And my role at P2P is to help spread this message and get more people staking.

05:12
Welcome Konstantin, how about you? What’s your role at P2P?

05:16
I’m a product manager on The Graph Network. And I am responsible for entire work regarding to The Graph, we decided that we need to dedicate some person for this project because The Graph Network it’s quite promising project. And actually, we work with Graph almost from the beginning, we were on one of the earliest investors. And as the test Indexer in the testnet. And now, we also play in our skin in The Graph Network. And that’s why we have one of the biggest sell-stake.

05:53
P2P works with a lot of different projects. What drew the team to The Graph?

05:57
We were an early investors in The Graph, because team was very strong. And actually, main idea of The Graph, it’s critical, and it’s helpful for the blockchain. So, The Graph Network is actually only one project about infrastructure itself. You can hear about a lot about Chainlink, or maybe even Tezos or any other. But The Graph, it’s not something like write it down, or something that a lot of people speaking about, because it is just really working project these working utility tokens couple of days ago, one of them, I think it was a Delegator, he asked his Discord about a graph and why it is so quite about The Graph inside of cryptocurrency communities. And why I didn’t hear about it a lot. Because I don’t know, it is a really important project, because a lot of decentralization…decentralized application already based on The Graph, and is a really cool product, which allows you to work with blockchains, and speed up old transactions and get all information to your dapp pretty quick and it is obviously a groundbreaking project. That would be one of the best projects in the web3. And it’s actually pretty interesting why so small amount of people speaking about it. And I think main reason is a group, the community, most focused on the price appreciations about pump and dumps and not about technology itself. But in case of The Graph, we can find a really good team with really strong developers, and really good tokenomics. And at the same time, we have projects that could be base, or all future decentralized applications. It was a great opportunity for us to join The Graph Network not only as an early investor, but also as a part of the community. And that’s why we started as an Indexer. Because we already had some experience with other networks.

08:28
Yeah, I think we’ve seen The Graph as an incredibly exciting network, serious team behind it, serious community behind it. Yeah, I think all these things came together. And it just it was inevitable that P2P would try to contribute and try to help the network or contribute to the development of the network.

08:47
One of the things that distinguishes PDP at The Graph is the size of your index or operation. I’m curious how you think about that. What are your thoughts about being the biggest Indexer at The Graph?

08:59
Yeah, we are not trying to be the biggest one, actually, it is just how it is for now. And we don’t invest in the marketing for The Graph as an Indexer goes to the original understand that we are quite big. And we should give some space for other Indexers. But we understood that we can’t just leave our clients who already with us, because they are working with us and I appreciate it, our work and each partner brought to us from other networks. Like for example, it could be clients, who work with us as for staking from, for example, Solana or maybe Cosmos or something like that. And the same people have GRT tokens, and they are good with our shares and they will spread stability, the size and they understand that work is us is a pretty safe for them. And that’s why they choose to work with us in The Graph. And it is a huge part of our clients here. So, we didn’t try. We don’t try right now to be biggest and to get, like a lot of part from the pie. So, we just working and we are quiet, we don’t speak loud about us. And actually it’s not any kind of initiative from our side to be bigger than we have right now.

10:29
So how about you Kasper? How do you think P2P balances being a large Indexer or Validator and also pursues a mission towards decentralization and building communities in the networks you work?

10:42
Yeah, so I think I’ll tie them both together. I think they both ties very well back to what Konstantin just mentioned about the ways that we try to promote ourselves, and the ways that we don’t try to promote ourselves, if that makes sense. There are a lot of opportunities in this industry to be very, to use industry terms chilly, to try to really push your own project at all costs, regardless of the consequences, or detrimental impact this might have on, I guess, the industry and the networks that you’re purporting to support and so on. And that kind of takes us back to the P2P validator mission, where we walk a very fine line between on the one hand growing the staking economy. So, growing the number of people that stake their tokens, on the one hand with P2P. And on the other hand, with other validators, the number of other fantastic validators that exist in the space, we have to try to balance this with also being positive contributors to the ecosystems and networks that we do try to support The Graph being a fundamental one here in this discussion. So, as we mentioned earlier, we are we’re incredibly enthusiastic about The Graph. We are a long-term believers in it, we’re early investors, and we are, to put it mildly diehard contributors on a mission to see The Graph grow and succeed. This is only possible if P2P, of course, also manages to contribute to the decentralization of The Graph as well. And that’s I guess, that’s kind of a bit poorly face. But that kind of goes back to what our mission is. We’re not trying to grow the number of people that stake with P2P at all costs. If you do choose to stake with P2P based on, I guess, a number of factors, whether it’s our background, our history in the space experience, or merits or anything else that you find appealing, then that’s fantastic. But we are also on a mission to fundamentally grow the staking economy as a whole. And that includes growing and contributing to networks like The Graph. So yeah, that goes back to, to what I mentioned in the beginning as to P2P mission, it’s not our mission is not to become the most profitable staking infrastructure staking provider in the space. Our mission is to grow the staking economy. The only way we can do this is if we educate people on the benefits of staking in a decentralized manner, to educate people, not just on our merits, but on the merits of other validators in the space. And the benefits of staking, as you mentioned, with smaller validators to help grow, I guess, the validator infrastructure for each network as a whole. I think if our mission wasn’t like this, we could have developed a custodial very centralized, almost an exchange type infrastructure where people can send us their funds, we can stake it for them, you make your money. And it’s simple as that. And that’s not the mission we’re on. There’s a lot of steps that we’ve taken, and it kind of contradicts the mission that we’re on.

13:52
So Konstantin as project manager, or lead at The Graph for P2P, take me through your thoughts on how you as a large Indexer think about smaller Indexers.

14:02
That’s pretty important for especially usually Delegators, you know, like new people just joining to the Discord and asking about: ‘Okay, guys, I have a newbie here and I am not sure that which Indexer I should choose? which one I should work. Would you recommend me someone?’ And in all of these cases, actually, we are trying to avoid any direct recommendations. And especially we don’t recommend ourselves, for example, because we are already the biggest Indexer and we understand that decentralization, it’s really a good story and we should support this decentralization. That’s why we have participating in all discussion inside of Discord. And don’t try to invite new Delegators via Discord and if someone asked us about like some Indexer we, they don’t speak bad about anyone, even if some one of them spoke bad about us previously. Because we think unhealthy and toxic behavior if you speak badly about someone and other things, small Indexers, or maybe some new Indexers can set negative reward cut. Usually Delegators who don’t know about, it doesn’t know about all aspects, how to choose a right Indexer they can look at reward cut, and estimated APY and seeing like, “Oh, it’s really high, estimated APY, I will go to this Indexer.’ And after several weeks, it has the same person in the Discord these questions like: ‘My industry hasn’t closed allocation yet. And nobody answered for all my questions from his side. This Indexer still alive or not?’ And sometimes some Indexers, you know, like, disappear, this kind of Delegator should await 28 days and just lose their potential rewards. That’s why I think it’s pretty complicated, not thinking only about estimated APY, but also about other factors, like customer support, self-stake amount, because they have a flushing mechanism. It’s some kind of protection for the Delegators that Indexer is operating right here. Interesting for rewards, and good service, for Delegators.

16:38
I think because Konstantin mentioned, a very good point here, at least on the marketing, but again, on marketing activities for network like The Graph, it’s not, we’re not running a million-dollar user acquisition campaigns and doing everything that we can to try to get people to stake their GRT with us. Our mission, at least on the marketing and communications, but what I can speak for is to create educational content and beneficial content. But yes, you can say the industry but for the network participants and followers of The Graph Network, to begin to educate users and to create materials documentation that works to grow awareness in the industry or for the network more than anything.

17:29
The GRTiQ Podcast is made possible by a generous grant from The Graph Foundation. The Graph Grants Program provides support for protocol infrastructure, gaps, subgraph, and community building. Learn more at the graft dock foundation. That’s The Graph dock foundation.

18:47
In addition to P2P size, there are two other things that distinguish you within the Indexer community. You regularly close your rewards allocations on a daily basis. And as an Indexer, you took a position against GIP-0002 when there was a lot of debate and discussion about that within the community. Starting with GIP-0002, can you explain why you took the position you did?

19:11
We understand and we agree that it was a really important proposal. And it was agreed in general that the industry should have ability to get parts for just covering their operational costs. But at the same time, it was some kind of only one side role, because we thinking about Indexers. But we don’t think about Delegators here. And it’s some kind of not so honest for the Delegators. And we’re trying to provide this kind of opinion that if we will approve this GIP, and Indexers, we will get a chance to get their rewards. It can lead us to some unhealthy, yeah, some unhealthy behavior from the some Indexer side or maybe from some Delegator side, and how it could be. And actually, we can find examples, if we just look at The Graphscan.io or just make some queries. Because The Graph, we can find a lot of examples, where some Indexers just sends their reward cut to 100%. And just starting to get all the rewards, and we don’t know what they do with this rewards, maybe they are working as a, like a service who just get al rewards and afterwards just split then between Delegators. But in this kind of here, or here, maybe scam. It’s work, like outside of The Graph Network, because you don’t need to be a Delegator. And this is like after this GIP, you just can, if you have some off-chain mechanism, you can just get your GRT send it to some Indexer. And this Indexer, we’ll just put this GRT as a sell stake, he’ll get all the rewards and just send it to you. And it’s some kind of cheat. So yeah, my point is, it was a not fully like detailed solution, which will cover all interests of all participants of the network. So that’s why we was against of this GIP, and we trying to ask people to wait a little bit, and make new GIP with the same mechanism for Delegator rewards. And that was a point. Like if we, if we want to use this two for one part of participants, let’s use the same opportunity for other articles or community, and that you’ll be more honest. But yeah, we also understand that all of us should cover our operations costs. And that’s why almost all voted as agree with this GIP.

22:22
So I guess it’s a follow up, I’d be curious to know how you voted. Did you end up changing your mind? Or did you stick to a no vote?

22:30
Actually, we just like, you just post our opinion and didn’t vote because it can make some impact on the voting. Because there was, like 99%, who was agreeing with it. So that’s why we just even didn’t vote, and we just share our opinion, or I’m trying to get some, like support from the community, and maybe from the council, maybe postpone all this GIP give for like additional clarification, and maybe some additional actions for make it better for Delegators also.

23:11
So as I said a moment ago, another thing that distinguishes P2P is that you close your rewards allocations almost daily, what factors did you consider when making the decision that you would be an Indexer? That closest rewards allocation so frequently?

23:26

We have several reasons for that. First of all, it gives some flexibility and transparency to our Delegators. Second, you can use any dashboards and you’ll see the rewards on a daily basis. Also, they can undelegate their GRTs as soon as they want and don’t lose their rewards for one week, or even 28 days. That’s actually possible in cases when other Indexers close their allocations less frequently than P2P. Another thing we’ve seen that we have not included in the dashboards APY’s, it’s a compounding of the rewards. When we allocate every Epoch, we also add rewards from that previous Epoch. So eventually, it gets a little bit more rewards for our Delegators. And as you know, right now we have several subgraphs. And all that we did before became more, more important because now new Indexers could start to allocate to some subgraph, or maybe apparently next year and just reallocate their tokens. And in this case, we reward share from each subgraph with variate. And I can see almost every day because for now I just change the numbers, for allocations presentation for locations for each subgraph, every day or optimization goal and actually for now It’s, I think it’s the most important reason for reallocating every day.

25:06
As more and more subgraphs migrate to the main net. Well, that strategy change. Do you anticipate closing your rewards allocations on a daily basis, as more subgraphs migrate?

25:16
We should look at the numbers, obvious new subgraphs, because for now, it’s like quite expensive to close allocations every day, this new subgraphs, like it’s at least 10 times more expensive. But still, we calculate everything. And we are always working for our clients or Delegators. And if we understand that everyday reallocation, it is more profitable for Delegators we will do that, if we will understand that every day reallocation is too expensive, and we can’t charge only 8% reward cut, will change it. But still, for now, we understand that is pretty important to have this option to reallocate every day, because of fluctuations of profitability of each subgraph. And we can just… we can’t allow just like equal shares to all subgraphs, because we understand that it is not like a healthy behavior, we should understand total network profitability, of other Indexers, Delegators. And that’s why I told you that it’s a pretty important topic.

26:31
Konstantin, one question I like to ask guests of the podcast is how they define or describe what a subgraph is. How do you do that?

26:40
Yeah, thank you, actually, it’s a really interesting question. subgraph is some kind of endpoint or getting info from the blockchain was prepared structure and index it or order data, you can imagine it as a book section in the library, I will explain it, of course, you can go to some boring house, with books and try to find a particular book by reading book covers one by one, until you read all of them or accidentally find the proper one. Instead of that, you can go to the library, where you will have prepared navigation sections, and perfect order for everything. This way, you will find your book at least 100 times faster. Libraries doing this job or books, like Google for websites and The Graph or the blockchain data. That’s why The Graph pretty often compare with Google or the website.

27:42
So let’s stay on the topic of allocations, and how you think about which subgraphs to allocate to how have you thought about this following the recent migration of subgraphs to the mainnet?

27:52
Actually, independent of also several factors. Because if you are really a small Indexer, and you have several 100,000 GRTT’s or maybe a couple of million GRT’s, you can just look at proportion, or some subgraph between signal tokens and already staked tokens. You can find better proportion and just put all of your GRT’s to the subgraph, and it is not a rocket science, you just put all onto one subgraph, and everything is fine. And your estimated APY will be quite good. But in case of future Indexers, like top 10 or maybe even top 15 by allocated tokens, just can’t work like this. Because, for example, for now, we work with almost 500 million GRTs in allocated size. And if you just put all of these GRTs, for example, to the other will get like 99% of the rewards from other, but nothing from other subgraphs. And nobody else can join the other for Indexer rewards. And the same time, even if we take the other subgraph from about the old version of PoolTogether. There are I think, 1 million GRT signal tokens. It is almost eight times higher than other subgraphs. But still, we can’t just allocate all of our delegated tokens to this subgraph because it’s a disgrace for other participants, or other Indexers and for us, and our delegates at the same time, so we are trying to create optimized proportion, how to split all our GRTs to all subgraphs, and have almost equal profitability are all network participants. And actually, it’s pretty important thing because for now, every day when we close our allocations and reallocate till next Epoch, we are looking at as the last allocations from other Indexers. And sometimes we can find pretty unhealthy behavior, where, for example, one of the biggest Indexer split a couple of 100 million GRTs on the equal shares, and just allocated to all possible subgraphs, without any understanding how it will impact on other network participants and even how it will impact on their Delegators. Because for example, if you look at some proportion for a wrong subgraph, and it will be quiet good after you allocate your tokens, this proportion will change. And you can just put, for example, 50 Million GRTs without any impact on the profitability. And in this case, you should understand, okay, if I will allocate some amount on one subgraph, I will impact on guys who was already there. And I can just allow to make it some more hard for them and decrease their profitability a lot. That’s why we are working every day as a some kind of equalizer, because we are trying to reach some equal profitability from each of the subgraphs. And I think it’s pretty good work from all the side to the community.

31:37
The Delegator community was quite excited with the recent migration of subgraphs to the mainnet, what can you tell us about the experience of the migration from the perspective of an Indexer?

31:48
First of all, it was a some kind of surprise for the Indexers. Because several hours before get on the call is a team, with the Edge & Node team heard that, you know, we need a lot more testing. And, yeah, we are decently in schedule. But I think we need another like, four or five days, please. And after that, new subgraphs will come play. And right after that, maybe think, five hours or something like that, just a news about new subgraphs. And it was actually at night for me like 4am I think, and everything changed, and all in a session, change their allocation strategy, and start thinking all new subgraphs. And as you can see, even now, not all Indexers already index all new subgraphs. And if I speak about impact on the Delegators, of course, for a couple of days in the beginning right after integration started. Some Indexers degrade their APY, because firstly Indexers who started to reallocate their tokens. Similarly, subgraphs get more rewards from them. But after a couple of days, it was like quite fluctuations just come down. And for now, it’s not so a huge problem. But still, even if we will look at huge Indexers, some of them still working with only one old Pool together without any concerns about APY or anything else. So I just trying to remind the old Delegators Look, not only on the APY’s, but also on the activity of the index here, inside of the network, potential community. And let’s try not only get some kinds of new tokens from all of this activity, but also I just trying to invite you trying to attract you to more participating on the network, community life. Speaking more about new GIPs on forum more tips in Discord. I think it will be pretty helpful for all of us to understanding what you want, and what you need.

34:25
So when you think about some of the challenges presented by the recent migration, what comes to mind? What challenges did you experience or other Indexers experience during the recent migration do you think would be helpful for Delegators to Understand.

34:39
I think one of the most complicated question now is how to be 100% sure that your Indexer has broader data, like verified data, because we don’t have any, you know, like Intel Indexer, or maybe some kind of example for all other Indexers, which you can use for comparing with your own Indexer. And The Graph incentivize Indexers to check their infrastructure and data consistency by themselves. They didn’t provide any tools for it till now. And all of us thinking about how we can do it in some better way. Because is one of the main responsibility for Indexers to provide the verified data to be sure that our end users will get proper answers for their query. I know that some Indexers already prepare their tools for that, for example, we shared our tool for checking queries with the community already, I also think Payne from StakeSquid also has their own tool for query. I believe that all of us will be more responsible. And we start to work more collaborative, or thinking our queries to be sure that we provide correct data to our end users. And I hope Indexers who will listen this will join us and we will use maybe our tools or StakeSquid’s. Or maybe we’ll create some other tools. But still, I’m sure that we will that we should check of our queries and provide verified data.

36:32
Hi, this is Kasper Rasmussen with P2P validators, we are indexes and Delegators at The Graph, that my conversation with GRTiQ Podcasts has been helpful to you then please consider supporting future episodes by becoming a subscriber. Mr. GRTiQ.com slash podcast for more information. That’s GRTiQ.com/Podcast. Thanks for listening.

37:00 

I’d like to know how you both got involved in crypto. Let’s start with you Kasper. How did you get involved?

37:09
Oh, okay, feels like feels like forever ago, even though it wasn’t too long ago. So I initially started a while I got into the space around four years ago in early 2017. Initially starting a smaller marketing position or a decentralized exchange at the time called Ethfinex, which was an Ethereum based exchange built out by the by the Bitfinex team, or the Bitfinex exchange. I worked on at Bitfinex initially in the beginning, again with a focus on the growth of Ethereum. Before I eventually transitioned to a marketing and communications director role at Bitfinex, where I was for around two years, and Bitfinex. For those who aren’t aware it’s a cryptocurrency trading platform or an exchange. It was one of the largest exchanges at the time. So it was a very interesting and fast paced to entry into the industry. Fast forward, I guess two and a half years and I joined the P2P team around say six to eight months ago on a mission to grow the staking economy and to increase the number of people staking their assets.

38:27
I started 2017 in the middle of the year and work with Ambisafe was one of the pioneering company, the blockchain space, founders of this company participated in the opening of Trezos and other few. And also they created one of the first semi paralyzed crypto exchange orderbook. So I joined as a project manager there and product manager and work primarily with an ICO It was a some kind of phenomenon for that time. And I believe that it is still a pretty cool idea. Because if you know a little bit about some venture capital things like any investments in startups, and you should know that it’s pretty complicated to get some financial help for your project, if you are not in the US, but in this case with ICO, all projects around the world was given this chance to make some funding for their projects for their ideas. And I think it was one of the pretty good blockchain implementation. And during that time, I was really inspired. And that’s why I’m still in the blockchain space. After that I worked with some FinTech company, a portfolio management company and not in the blockchain space. And for now, I just come back to the blockchain. I’m pretty happy to be working with P2P, because our team is pretty awesome.

40:04
I think it would be interesting to contrast Denmark and Russia in terms of how popular crypto is. So let’s start with you, Konstantin, how popular is crypto with the people in Russia?

40:14
Actually keep the questions. It’s why it’s popular questions inside of Russia, because he came back, but 2017 when it was, like cryptocurrency hype, first wave of cryptocurrency hype, even taxi drivers spoke with me about Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. And it was quite funny. Especially if you’re, if you work for this area, for 10 or maybe 15 hours per day and just try to relax, somehow, inside of the taxi cab and taxi driver asked you about Ethereum or even more maybe? Bitcoin? It’s quite funny. I yeah. And we have a lot of startups here, actually one of them. It’s quiet famous, it’s Wave. Several exchanges here. And a lot of people entrepreneur’s in Russia, who actually work here, but incorporated some other jurisdictions. Because if I speak about some, like, law questions, it’s quite complicated inside of our country for now.

41:23
And you Kasper? How would you describe the popularity of crypto with the people in Denmark?

41:29
I think this is definitely an interest we have. We have some great people from the industry that are from Denmark, for example, taking some of the MakerDAO guys, as an example, I would say, we’re probably a bit more conservative here in Denmark. So we don’t have the same, I guess, exuberance and enthusiasm for the price volatility or that, I guess that tends to drive the interest in the industry. There’s a definite interest in it. And there’s a passion for what’s being built in the industry. And there’s a passion for contributing to these developments. But we don’t have, I think, the same level of excitement that we see in, for example, the US or the UK, or many other places, which is, I guess there are positives and negatives to that. But it’s something that has as a lot of room to grow. And I’m sure it will.

42:23
Kasper if P2P and other validators are successful, and there’s a bigger adoption of the staking economy across the world. What’s the impact?

42:34
Very tough question. Interesting question. To be honest, I’m not quite sure. Of course, the million dollar question is how or if we managed to connect this digital staking economy with more traditional legacy financial models and infrastructure, we’re seeing it, I think we’re seeing it happen, initially, very gradually. But over the last year or so it’s seems like it’s been kind of a boom in the growth of the staking economies. I think we still have a long way to go. There’s a lot, there’s a lot that we can all do on the education and awareness belt to I guess, try to bridge the gap between legacy markets and these newer staking economies. Yeah, that’s about as much of an answer as I can give. I think.

43:23
It’s hard to talk about the staking economy, and not talk about decentralized finance or DeFi. I’d be curious how you think about or define DeFi, Kasper?

43:32
I think it’s all up for interpretation here. As you mentioned, I’m not sure I fully understand what DeFi is or what the implications of DeFi is. I’m not sure anyone does to be honest. And that’s based on how far we’ve come in the past, what, four or five years, as well as the potential of all the protocols and all the infrastructure that’s being built now. We have so much we still like we have so much. We haven’t learned yet. So much, we still have to learn about what the true potential of the DeFi space is, I think and whether staking is a core component of this or a minor aspect of it. Time will tell. I think it’s I think it’s a big component of it that I do think there’s a lot more to the concept or terminology surrounding DeFi that we have. We have to explore and very excited to see what that is.

44:29

Konstantin, I’d like to know what your vision for the future of The Graph is.

44:35
Actually it’s a pretty exciting time for The Graph Network. Because for now, we’re like in the beginning of migration, and next couple of months. It’ll be pretty interesting. Because we will see query fees of course because we are waiting for them and a lot of Delegators asking about them about some expectations like: ‘What do you think about future APY? Will it increase or not? How much it will increase?’ And actually, nobody knows for now, because we don’t know about how many ways will be there. How much costs will be, like each of them actually even don’t know about how much subgraphs, we’ll be really working as a decentralized network, because we actually know about subgraphs on the cost of service now. But still, even if all of them, we’ll just migrate to the decentralized network, it will be only a start for The Graph Network. Because we are also beginning and causes really a long growth. And I think a lot of new applications will start working, with The Graph, especially after migration will cause The Graph Network, we’ll be like ground stone of web3. And also, if we speak about not only subgraphs, it’s some kind of bigger use of subgraphs. But still, we didn’t speak about curation. And I think it’s a pretty interesting part of the network. I expect a lot of pretty cool opportunities there. From my perspective, it seems like some kind of pretty similarity with ICO also and IO, where you just bet on something and your belief in something, and you will get more if your thoughts was the right way. And if you’re wrong, again, like just try again, and I think it’s pretty cool. And it’s a good opportunity to expand economics to attract new people to The Graph Network. So as I said, before, the tokenomics of The Graph Network, it’s pretty impressive.

46:55
What are some of the ways that listeners can learn more about P2P than the different projects you’re working on?

47:01
So first of all, we have a number of channels where we’re quite active. So our main one is, of course, our Telegram channel, we have our entire team, they’re pretty much spending all their non-working hours, of course, answering questions and just trying to, I guess, contribute to everyone’s understanding and the different networks that we support, and answer any kind of questions whether it’s support related or whether it’s, I guess, more open ended questions on the future of The Graph. As an example, I feel we’re quite active across a number of other platforms, for example, network Discords, network subreddits network, Twitter discussions, we always try to take a stance and contribute. I think it’s a little bit of a challenging area as well. It’s one way you can never do well enough, if that makes sense. Like there’s not a limit to how much we’d like to participate in The Graph community. We’re big supporters of The Graph, technical and non-technical developers and contributors. And I guess it’s a mission for us to be as active as we possibly can and to contribute as much as we possibly can. And it’s definitely on the roadmap to take more apart. But we are, as I said, also very active across a number of channels. And if there’s ever anyone that has a question or concern or any type of topic that they like discussed, we can always be found, I guess, specifically on our Telegram but always across a number of other channels as well.

48:32
So specifically for Delegators listening today, how can they make contact with you and the team?

48:37
So, our website is P2P.org, very simple. Twitter is twitter.com P2P validator, so @P2Pvalidator, and those are the main ones it’s the same for LinkedIn if you want to connect with us there and if you want to connect with any of our team members, ask questions you can find us on LinkedIn as well. On Telegram we are via channels called P2P Staking so specifically to find the say you can buy t.me/P2Pstaking or you can just go to the search bar and search for P2P staking or P2P validator community is the title and you’ll find a whole team there.