The Graphtronauts GRT Delegators Indexers Baghe Chris Ewing Crypto Staking

GRTiQ Podcast: 35 The Graphtronauts

Episode 35: Today I’m speaking with Chris Ewing and Baghe, both of whom are members of The Graphtronauts, a large Delegator community within The Graph ecosystem. For anyone involved with The Graph since the early days, you have likely interacted with members of The Graphtronauts, as they are very active in both Twitter and in their Telegram channel, helping to educate, engage, and connect with people interested in The Graph.

My conversation with Chris and Baghe covers the origins of The Graphtronauts, some of the community tools and resources they have developed, how they became interested in The Graph, and their long-term vision for the network. Like so many others featured on this podcast, Chris and Baghe – along with The Graphtronuats community itself – have unique stories for how they became interested in crypto and The Graph.

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The following podcast is for informational purposes only. The contents of this podcast do not constitute tax, legal, or investment advice. Take responsibility for your own decisions. Consult with the proper professionals, and do your own research.

Chris Ewing (00:21):

And when you explain to them and when they understand the underlying value of what they’re holding, it’s exciting to watch that light bulb come on, and see people with that aha moment, and they’re like, “Ah, okay, now I get it,” and delegate, hold and become a member of the community.

Nick (00:56):

Welcome to the GRTiQ Podcast. Today I’m speaking with Chris Ewing and Baghe, both of whom are members of The Graphtronauts, a large Delegator community within The Graph ecosystem. For anyone involved in The Graph since the early days, you’ve likely already interacted with members of The Graphtronauts, as are very active in both Twitter and in their Telegram channel, helping to educate, engage, and connect with people interested in The Graph. My conversation with Chris and Baghe covers the origins of The Graphtronauts, some of the community resources and tools they’ve developed, and how they both became interested in The Graph, along with their long-term vision for the network. And like so many others featured on this podcast, both Chris and Baghe share unique stories for how they became interested in crypto, and eventually found The Graph. We started the conversation by having Chris and Baghe introduce themselves.

Chris Ewing (02:05):

Hi, this is Chris Ewing, and I’ve been with Graphtronaut since, I believe it was April. Stumbled across them from a Twitter feed, and thought, we’ll check this out, see what’s here. It’s been a great experience. It’s been a wonderful learning experience. The community is fantastic. You get to meet a lot of interesting people, a lot of interesting personalities. There’s a pretty good cross-section of humanity represented in the community, and it’s been a fun ride and we’re looking forward to where we go from here.

Baghe (02:32):

Hi everyone. My name is Filippo, but they all know me as Baghe. I’m Italian and I work as a IT developer for a large company. I became a Graphtronaut since the beginning.

Nick (02:45):

So Chris, what can you tell us about The Graphtronauts, the history of it, and what it’s trying to accomplish?

Chris Ewing (02:50):

Sure. Ironically enough, the group was originally founded by an individual who was involved with the token, purchased a bunch, was excited about it, and then sold right before the rally to the all time high back in February. He left the group, which kind of left a leadership vacuum. R, which many of you are familiar with from the Telegram group, stepped into that position, assumed some of those responsibilities, and the rest of the admin has filtered in behind him coming at different times. There’s a lot of different people that are represented there. We’ve got a couple people from the UK. We’ve got a couple people from the United States. Baghe is Italian. We’ve got another guy from Norway. So we’ve got a pretty good selection of people. Nobody’s in one time zone, so we’ve got people spread out around the globe giving us a pretty good coverage of the Telegram group.


There’s always somebody online, especially when you get into some of the OG Graphtronauts. Our mission and what we’re about, we want to create a positive, supportive community for holders who understand the potential of The Graph, and realize that in order to recognize that potential, you’re going to have to have some patience. This is something that is a long-term bet for those of us that are involved in that. The space evolved from being just a place for holders, but it’s evolved into a learning center for delegation and other aspects of The Graph that come up just through the course of conversation.


My personal opinion is that The Graphtronauts play a role within the community. We serve a purpose. We love watching people realize the value of what they’re holding. That’s one of the most exciting things to me, is to have a conversation with somebody and they’re uncertain as to who they want to delegate to, or what the potential of The Graph is. And when you explain to them and when they understand the underlying value of what they’re holding, it’s exciting to watch that light bulb come on, and see people with that aha moment and they’re like, “Ah, okay, now I get it.” And delegate, hold and become a member of the community, and help encourage other people as the conversations permit.

Nick (05:15):

So how big is that community, Chris? I know The Graphtronauts are very active on Telegram. They’ve got a really nice looking website. How big’s the community, and what can you tell us about some of the admins?

Chris Ewing (05:25):

We have over 3,000 members. We passed that back in September. Like I said, there’s a pretty good cross-section of humanity represented there, but the admin teams are interesting. We’ve got a pretty eclectic mix of professions that are involved. We’ve got people that work on offshore energy platforms, we’ve got people that repair elevators. We’ve got people that are factory workers. We’ve got people that are… there’s office workers and business people and people like Baghe that are involved in the crypto and the web space. But there’s so many people that are in professions that are not strictly crypto that it provides a little bit of a more, I want to call it real world perspective. We’re not all stuck on code and algorithms, and I think that helps present maybe a view and a perspective that resonates with people that are not coming from a technical background.


The OG Graphtronaut status, which we’ll see different people in the chat have different tags after their names, the OG Graphtronauts are voted on by the existing OGs. There’s currently over 20 people carrying that title, and some of them will rotate in and out just depending, because life can take us different directions, and sometimes people find their focus moving elsewhere, and so they step down from that position. We’ve got some people that have stepped down, and yet they’re still involved in the chat. They just would prefer to not have some of those responsibilities, and that’s fine. We understand that life takes us different ways, and we’re not always focused on the same things at the same times.

Nick (07:01):

Chris, I’ve spent my own share of time on the or Telegram channel, and so that’s certainly how I got to know you and some of the other admins. What can you tell me about Sloth? There’s a person that’s pretty active there and seems to be in that Telegram channel 24/7.

Chris Ewing (07:17):

Yeah, we’ve had that same discussion, asking when exactly he sleeps because there are times when he’s on… literally you look at the timestamps, and the hours that he’s on, he’s not getting more than 2, 3, 4 hours of sleep between comments. But Sloth is an exceptionally passionate individual. He is a driving force of the community, his passion for what GRT does, what it can do, what it can bring to civilization, and that can sound a little grand, but the concept of decentralization and how that is going to impact our lives, that’s something that’s very important to him. And you see that with his responses to different questions. He loves it when the light bulb comes on, when somebody… it clicks, they understand what’s going on, they make that connection. That’s something that drives him. The Graphtronauts is a creative outlet for him, but it’s something that’s a passion and something that is… goes beyond just… it’s like, hey, I’ve got something I can make money at. It’s almost personal with him, what we are trying to accomplish as a Graph community.

Nick (08:28):

So I mentioned you guys have built a really nice looking website there. It’s So for listeners that haven’t visited, it’s There’s a lot of resources, guides and ways to connect with their telegram group there. But one of the highlights of what The Graphtronauts have contributed to The Graph community in addition to this really strong telegram channel is the network tool. And I guess Baghe, I want to turn to you, because I know you had a heavy lift on that, and put a lot of the design into it. What were the early ideas or visions behind building The Graphtronauts network and what does it currently do?

Baghe (09:08):

The network section of the site collects and shows in a simple and clear way the most important data of The Graph ecosystem. For example, we can see how the total supply is divided, how many users are involved, in what roles, how many and which subgraphs have migrated to the decentralized network, and the trend of the tokens burned, and the increase in fee generated. All this information are shown in the website, is made available by querying the official subgraph of The Graph, the same one that fits the data of the official dashboard.


One of the most important features is certainly the part relating to the Indexer reward calculator. In fact, user can easily compare the performance of each Indexer, view their profile, for example, to find a way to contact them with the social links, or read their biography. But above all, users have the possibility to insert reviews that help all the other potential Delegators to make the right choice. With our tool, each Delegator can keep track of their delegation simply by indicating their wallet address. No verification or integration with MetaMask is required. Its user will also have the ability to configure a notification via Telegram whenever an Indexer closes an allocation, and distributes rewards, or change their indexing reward cut, or and a couple of other events. In our new app, under development, there is already a section for Curators as well. And all these features, as mentioned before, are possible by querying the official subgraph.

Nick (10:55):

So Baghe, before we leave some of the tools that are available at The Graphtronauts, why don’t you tell us as the guy who built this, the architect behind the app and some of this information we’re seeing here, you said earlier that you had to use The Graph to build some of this. What was that experience like as somebody who used The Graph to build information about The Graph?

Baghe (11:15):

Well, the current website cannot be considered a app at the moment, because the website uses a common hosting service and the domains are registered at DNS level. But the new app I’m developing is… I’m building is developed with React and will be deployed with the IPFS, and will be reachable via The Graphtronauts at ATH domain, and that will be fully adapt, because it will fetch data from the subgraphs.

Nick (11:49):

So Chris, let’s break that down a little bit here. Baghe has built this really cool tool, and this dashboard allows Delegators to do some things when it comes to identifying Indexers or researching Indexers. And it sounds like you’re adding on a Curator component as well?

Chris Ewing (12:06):

Yes. Each of the profiles contains… there’s a link on there that shows your wallet, or if you have multiple wallets, it has each wallet broken down individually. So for instance, in my case, I have a couple different wallets that I’m delegating from, one of which is pre-tax, one of which is post-tax. That lets me keep my finances straight. But underneath those things then you have a separate graphic for the Curator component of that wallet. So I can look right down the dashboard and see wallet A is generating these returns, wallet B is generating these returns, wallet C is generating these returns, and wallet C is also in this position regarding curation, because you can either be at a profit or loss just depending on which subgraphs you’re in, and what their status is at that point.


But then when you click on each of those links, it breaks it down further and so you can see exactly… if I were to click on my Delegator link, it would show me exactly which Indexers that particular wallet had delegated to. And the same thing with the Curator link, I can see exactly which subgraphs I’ve signaled on, and which ones are at a profit, and which ones are at a loss right away. It’s just a very clean, very simple look. It’s not going to overwhelm you with a lot of information that you don’t need, but everything that you need, all the information that you’re going to require to make an educated decision is right there. It’s all front forward. I’m biased, but in my opinion, it’s the cleanest, simplest one that’s out there in the community right now.

Nick (13:42):

So Chris, if people want to use this tool, get involved with The Graphtronauts network and have access to some of these apps, what’s the best way to go about doing that?

Chris Ewing (13:51):

Right now, the app is currently in beta. We’re looking for testers for that. It’s just about ready to be released, but again, anymore eyes on it initially is a help. There is a link when you’re in The Graphtronauts chat, there is a link that’s pinned at the top that you can click on and that’ll get you access to it. One of the admin will need to authenticate you before you… or authorize you before you have access to it, but that’s a pretty simple process on our end. That’s pretty much the way to get into the app.


If you want to use our existing dashboard, which is on the website, that’s easy to do. Just you go to the website, enter your wallet address, click through a couple things and you’re in there. We’re not collecting info on you. It’s not something we’re going to send you emails advertising something from us. We don’t do that at all. But in order for us to provide you information about your wallet, we have to actually know what your wallet is. So that’s the thing for that. We’re not going to ask you for any security information or anything like that. It’s just a way to allow us to give you the information that you need.


I’m curious then, on the Telegram channel with all the questions and interaction you have with people that are involved in the community, and people that are researching the community, the types of questions or the most common questions you’re getting about The Graph.

Chris Ewing (17:03):

We get a lot of questions that are focused around what Indexer do I go with, what’s the best way of doing that, do you have any recommendations; that’s fantastic. I love seeing those, because that gives people of the community an opportunity to share their experiences and pass on that knowledge. There are times where, especially around the big token unlocks, we were having to do a lot of informing, explaining to people, no, this isn’t a bad thing. We also field a lot of questions from the community that… people that are just uncertain as to the direction that The Graph is going. They want to see major news things every day. They want to see new partnerships announced every day. And the long and short of it is, there’s not a project out there that’s doing that. The Graph has been phenomenal at announcing and developing new partnerships and connections with networks, other teams, and reaching out into various segments of the development community.


The Graph is not marketed towards the average retail investor. That’s not the goal. Their purpose is to reach the developers, the people that are pounding away at their keyboards, that’s their target and that’s who they’re focusing on. And trying to convey that message to the broader community and explain to people, just because you’re not personally hearing something or seeing a news flash, doesn’t mean that there aren’t things happening within the development communities that are building web3, that are building using The Graph protocol. And trying again to just reassure people that there are good things happening, there are good things going on, progress is being made. A lot of it is behind the scenes, but progress is being made. And it’s important to keep that concept in people’s minds, and just make sure that that comes up on a regular basis, because there’s always somebody that comes in that is uncertain or unsure of some of those things, and that’s part of the role we play as a community is, as a Graphtronauts community, is just getting that information out there and making sure that people understand that The Graph is moving forward.

Nick (19:27):

I want to talk a little bit more about you, Baghe, and Chris on your personal story. A lot of what The Graphtronauts are doing are community based. You’re just kind of driven by your own passion. Starting with you Chris, what is it on the personal level that drives you to participate so much in The Graphtronauts and in The Graph community?

Chris Ewing (19:47):

I have always loved history, and my family traveled quite a bit when I was a kid. My wife and I have traveled pretty extensively on the East Coast. I grew up in Western Pennsylvania, so I’m very familiar with the railroads, the steel, the coal industries. That’s just part of what it is around here. I see every day how those industries shaped, not just my region, but how they impacted the rest of the world really. And so that mindset, that concept is something that’s stuck in my head. During quarantine last year, I had way too much time on my hands like most other people do. Really had not done anything in crypto up to that point. Just I looked at it, but to me it was just monopoly money. This is just something people say has value, but just because you say something has value doesn’t mean it actually does.


That was where I was. But again, I had too much time, so just started looking into some things, thought if I know what I’m doing here, I might be able to make some money at it. Bought some different things, sold some different things, pretty much lost money on everything that I did. Just at one point, ended up buying some GRT, and this is embarrassing to admit, but I bought it because the name sounded cool. It’s like, “Oh, this sounds like a very technical thing. It’s got to have some basis here.” Thankfully I didn’t sell it. I hung onto it and started reading into and researching what it did, and it just clicked with me. The light bulb went off.


The Graph is the equivalent of what the railroads were back during the Second Industrial Revolution. It facilitates the movement of data. It is essentially a… there is an element of it being a raw material, because data is literally as raw as it gets. And just I understood and being able to see some of these major players back during that time period did, and how they obtained their wealth and their status was based on the railroads, the coal industry, the steel industry, the canals, transportation. And I realized very quickly that The Graph was the modern equivalent of that, and you need to move data. That’s just the general concept in web3; data’s got to get from point A to point B, and The Graph facilitates that in a very simple and very inexpensive manner.


The Graph is a vital component of the next phase of global connectivity. Nothing is a guarantee. There’s always risk, there’s always uncertainty, but it’s positioning, it doesn’t have any legit competition. There’s other places out there that claim they do the same thing, but they’re centralized. The Graph is already positioned as a decentralized link within the software stack, and… borrow a link from another token, but that’s the concept. It’s something that’s integral. There were so many similarities and comparisons to the driving forces of the industries that I grew up seeing, and experiencing, and visiting that it clicked with me on a personal level. I realized that’s probably not a concept that most people are connected with, but for me and my background, that was what pulled me into it.

Nick (23:03):

That’s a great answer Chris, and I appreciate you sharing that. You’re the first podcast guest comparing it to the railroads, which I really like that idea. How about you Baghe? What is it that drives you to participate and contribute so much time to this community?

Baghe (23:17):

I am a person who loves to keep my things in order, and plan my day rigorously. For this reason, I also proceed all those services in the technological field that find and organize data. I discovered this way The Graph a bit by chance at the end of 2020, and in a few days I realized the real potential of this service, and started to get passionate about the project and the community. In the beginning, it was not easy for me to understand how the delegation worked. Even less easy was to identify which could be the most feasible Indexers, for example. For this reason, I decided to implement the current indexation system and the current website, and the coming app.

Nick (24:09):

Chris and Baghe, if you’ve listened to the podcast before, you know that I like to ask guests of the podcast for some insight regarding the attitudes and opinions of the people who live in their area or their country toward crypto. So why don’t we start with you Baghe. You’re joining me from Italy. I haven’t had anyone on the podcast from Italy yet. What are the attitudes and opinions of the people of Italy towards crypto?

Baghe (24:34):

Among my friends and relatives, the world of cryptocurrency is still very little known. They have heard of Bitcoin, some even of Ethereum, but their knowledge tends to be limited to these two. They don’t even know that you can buy a part of Bitcoin, and they all say, “I don’t have that much money to buy a Bitcoin.

Nick (24:59):

Turning to you Chris, you’re joining me from the United States. I’m familiar somewhat with the attitudes of people here in the US, but would love to get your opinion on that.

Chris Ewing (25:08):

In my circle, I’d break it down into four groups of people. There are people that are curious, similar to when everyone started getting those AOL CDs in the mail back in the ’90s, we were like, ah, this is interesting. What’s this involve? What is this? I hear comments like, what’s the difference between Dogecoin and Bitcoin? There’s an unfamiliarity there that I think it just doesn’t allow them to connect with it yet.


The second group, which I would put myself in up to the end of last year, I’d refer to them as skeptics. Again, you hear the comment just because you say something has value doesn’t mean it actually does. So why is there actual value locked into these various tokens or coins? The third group, which I would say that I am in now, in which I have several friends that have migrated there as well, we understand the underlying principle and value. We may not understand everything. In fact, none of us do, but we have an appreciation for the concept, and we get what it is and where it’s going. And we’re viewing crypto as another segment of our investment portfolio. I didn’t dump all of my money into one particular coin or token. I have friends that they have crypto holdings, and then they’ve got more traditional holdings, or holdings in other areas.


The fourth group, and which I would say is the largest by far, just they simply ignore it. They don’t care. It doesn’t matter to them. It doesn’t impact their daily life, and so why would they care? I think the common thread that runs through all of those groups, and this concept has come up on various other podcasts, and Baghe even touched on that a little bit with his comments regarding the people in Italy, is the need for continuing education. It’s important that we explain to people not just what GRT does, but what the whole concept of blockchain is. Why is it important? Why is it going to change how we operate as a society?


 People are stuck on it being something that you make money on. And yes, there is money to be made there, but a far greater point is that it is something that’s going to allow our internet to be, and the various functions of the internet to be more secure, more stable, more robust. We expect things to happen now. We don’t want to have to wait for something. And there are components of our existing internet that don’t allow that to happen. There’s lag. There are things that sites go down, you can’t log on to something, something forgot what your password was, and you forgot what it was, and so now you’ve got to go through a whole process to get that back. There are just components of our existing system that are going to be changed very significantly with the implementation of blockchain technology, and just the various things in that are coming in web3. So I think we’re seeing that, but trying to explain that to some people is like trying to explain calculus to someone who doesn’t understand addition and subtraction. There’s a pretty steep learning curve there for some people for sure.

Nick (28:32):

Chris, what’s your long-term vision for The Graph then?

Chris Ewing (28:35):

I believe Eva Beylin mentioned the concept or used the language the goal of The Graph is to index all data. The immediate focus right now, what The Graph is looking at and attempting to do is more of a backend function of the web. But as more data migrates to blockchains, and more of what the websites and the functions that aren’t necessarily finance related or NFT related, the more of that information that migrates to blockchain, the more that there’s going to be a necessity to pull all sorts of data, not just points that are, again, finance, or date, or NFT related. And I can see The Graph easily evolving to incorporate more of a front end presence as well. We’re so early. I mean we’re not a year into this yet, but it’s just beginning to coalesce. It’s just exciting to see the potential that The Graph can offer to the web3 ecosystem.

Nick (30:06):

Baghe and Chris, one of the reasons I’m really excited to speak with you, and certainly other members of The Graphtronauts community, is most of you have a day job and you’re just checking in and out on The Graph community. You are putting in a ton of time on the Telegram channel, on the website to make sure that others have information. But it’s also a side hustle. It’s a passion of each of yours, and so I think it’d be interesting for listeners to know what are you doing when you are not working on The Graph, and how do you balance that time?

Chris Ewing (30:35):

I think I can safely say that I have the most meandering path to crypto of any of the guests that you’ve featured on here up to this point. I was drafted into the family construction business as a young teenager, just cleaning up job sites, carrying material, doing whatever. Loved it. Learned a work ethic at a young age. I had disposable income when I was younger, and so I learned how to budget, how to save. So finances were something that was in my brain. My spring semester in college, I’m sitting in a classroom, it’s a business law class. It’s 90° in the room because there’s not air conditioning. And literally right outside my window, they’re building a new office building. And it clicked with me; I do not want to spend 40 hours a week working in an office. I can’t do this with my life. I’ve got to be outside doing something.


So ended up… switched my major from computer science to business management. One of the reasons why I did that was because I found out that code did not like me as much as I liked it. I was terrible at it. Abysmal. It was just awful, but I had to get away from that. So I ended up with business management, which gives me a great background for some of the finance aspects of what we’re looking at now. Graduated from college, went to work in the business, have worked my way up through the different positions. And to this point, I love being able to contribute to The Graph community, The Graphtronauts community specifically. I’ve been involved a little more on Discord lately, but it’s something that’s going to be foundational and hopefully elevate a huge swath of humanity that’s currently underserved in economic opportunities.


I think I bring a little bit of a different perspective to the community, one that’s not steeped in code or algorithms. I think I can separate GRT and the concept behind The Graph from the general crypto sphere, and am able to look at it as an infrastructure component, and realizing what potential that brings, and looking at some of the historical significance that the infrastructure has played in various stages of the Industrial Revolutions. So many people are in crypto because they want to get rich overnight. That’s probably not going to happen for most of them, because they don’t understand what they’re doing. They’re playing essentially a different version of the lottery. And I love being able to tell people, this is solid, this is vital. It’s not going away. It may not be flashy, but in the next phase of the web, it’s going to be used in some form. There’s tremendous value here if you’re patient and if you’re willing to wait for it.

Nick (33:16):

How about you Baghe?

Baghe (33:18):

Well, I started working immediately after finishing my studies as a graphic designer. After a while, I started creating small websites for companies in my area, and I was contacted almost immediately by a large Italian company for a development and maintenance of some web portals. And since then I’ve been working for the municipality of Venice and an Italian jewelry brand. During these years, I’ve approached and get more passionate about the world of crypto. First I was just curious, then I made my first investment, and I understood the real potential of this world.

Nick (34:05):

So Chris, what’s your advice for listeners that want to get more involved with The Graphtronauts, more involved in The Graph community, and even becoming a Delegator into the project?

Chris Ewing (34:13):

Sure. I would suggest joining the Telegram conversation. Just get involved, speak up, ask questions. The broader community, we need to hear from people that come from various backgrounds, and have various questions and various perspectives. Everybody’s investing strategy is different and I understand that, but there are elements of The Graph that tie into to certain facets of that. And it’s important that people understand that from an investment standpoint, The Graph fits in a certain category, it doesn’t fit in other categories. And no matter how you want to, you can’t grab it and squeeze it into one of those other categories. You have to have some patience if you’re going to be involved in this segment. So join the Telegram conversation. Just be part of the community. Listen, speak up, pay attention to what’s said, learn things.


The other thing would be to follow our Twitter account. It’s important that we emphasize positive comments, and positive aspects on social media. Something else that would be vital for the community, and what would play a huge role is just entering your profile in our website and in our upcoming dapp that’s going to be released here shortly. New Delegators are looking for information on Indexers. New Delegators want to know who’s doing a good job, who’s not doing a good job. We can help drive stake decentralization if we give these new Delegators the information regarding Indexers that would allow them to make wise decisions.


New Delegators often go with the big ones, because big equals safe. Well, that doesn’t help with the decentralization concept. So if we have more people that are putting reviews on and saying, hey, this Indexer, X, Y, or Z, is doing a great job, fantastic returns, good communication, I love that they’re involved in the community; that speaks volumes to new people coming in, because if they can look at this Indexer and go, wow, this guy’s got 13 positive reviews and this guy has one, I’m going to say that the guy with a 13 is probably a good bet. Some people might be willing to take a chance on somebody else, but for new people, they want to feel safe. Just there’s an element there they don’t want to lose their money. Not for everybody, but for people that are just wanting to take that leap, that’s a significant factor. So you can help solidify the network and drive stake decentralization, help new people just by the simple aspect of reviewing the Indexers that you’ve delegated to.


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DISCLOSURE: GRTIQ is not affiliated, associated, authorized, endorsed by, or in any other way connected with The Graph, or any of its subsidiaries or affiliates.  This material has been prepared for information purposes only, and it is not intended to provide, and should not be relied upon for, tax, legal, financial, or investment advice. The content for this material is developed from sources believed to be providing accurate information. The Graph token holders should do their own research regarding individual Indexers and the risks, including objectives, charges, and expenses, associated with the purchase of GRT or the delegation of GRT.